Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby DeborahA » Fri Jul 02, 2010

Thanks.

I've been using the progesterone cream for 2 months now. I start using it after I've confirmed ovulation, until the day before my expected period. My question is that I start spotting pinkish brown 11 days after ovulation. It's not at all heavy and I only usually see it when I wipe. I then get my period (a full flow) 14 days after ovulation.

Would you say that I do have a luteal phase defect because of the spotting, or no because my actual period is on day 14? I hoped the progesterone cream would stop the spotting but it hasn't. I am worried that this will affect my chances of getting pregnant and maintaining the pregnancy.

Thanks for your help.
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby Dalene » Fri Jul 02, 2010

Deks and other ladies who are wondering about the cancer caution on progesterone cream labels-

Progesterone Cream Label Cancer Warning
Cancer Warning on Progesterone Cream Labels
Q: I did go to the Environmental Working Group website you recommended to look at the ingredients in my progesterone cream and noticed that progesterone is listed as a possible carcinogen. What’s that about?

A: Here’s a clear, accurate description of this labeling issue, as explained by the nonprofit group Women in Balance:

“The state of California, under Proposition 65, requires warning labels on consumer products that contain ingredients “known to the state” as posing potential cancer risk. Women in Balance believes that placing a warning label on progesterone cream products is not warranted. We would like to educate consumers about how Proposition 65 came about.

What is California Proposition 65?
California’s Safe Drinking Water and Toxic Enforcement Act of 1986, also known as Proposition 65 (“Prop 65”), contains a list of over 800 chemicals identified as carcinogens. Prop 65 mandates that warnings be given to consumers of products that contain certain chemicals identified by the state of California as hazardous. Progesterone was added to this list in 1988 based on summaries from the National Toxicology Program (NTP) and the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC). Both of these programs only evaluated progesterone given to animals already predisposed to cancer. Progesterone was then given to these high risk animals in very high doses. Also, these animals were given known carcinogens in addition to the high doses of progesterone.

The NTP’s Tenth Report on Carcinogens even acknowledges that “no adequate human studies of the relationship between exposure to progesterone and human cancer have been reported.” Progesterone is a naturally occurring hormone produced by all humans, unlike most of the chemicals listed in Prop 65, which are not naturally present in humans.”

I’d like to add that most of the research originally cited by the NTP to justify adding progesterone to the list of carcinogens was largely based on synthetic progestins—apparently they didn’t realize that progesterone and progestins are very different. Progesterone cream companies that don’t add this label in California become vulnerable to lawsuits from a particularly nasty group of attorneys who are using Prop 65 to make millions of dollars. Meanwhile, there are 799 other chemicals out there, most of which probably do pose a risk of cancer.

If you’d like to read about all the ways that progesterone prevents cancer, please read the book I co-authored with Dr. John Lee and Dr. David Zava, What Your Doctor May Not Tell You about Breast Cancer. Although it was published in 2002, Dr. Zava, myself and others have kept a close eye on progesterone-related research and studies since then, and new evidence comes out monthly supporting everything we put forth in the book. You’ll also find some articles specifically about progesterone and cancer in Vol 3 Issue 1 of the Health Watch.
* http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/pgcreamlabelwarning.html

Deborah- Did you include Vitex? Are you taking anything else?
Best Wishes,

Dalene Barton, CH, Labor Doula
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby DeborahA » Fri Jul 02, 2010

No I havn't included Vitex yet. Do you think the progesterone cream is not enough? I am also in the process of losing weight, do you think that will help as well. I was going to start having a Maca smoothie in the mornings.
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby Dalene » Fri Jul 02, 2010

No I am not suggesting you add anything, just trying to get a clearer picture. Spotting does not always mean something is wrong. Havee you been spotting regularly before using progesterone cream? What is the dosage that you are using? How do you confirm ovulation? What is your menstrual cycle like?

It is probably fine to begin the Maca, should help balance the progesterone levels.
Best Wishes,

Dalene Barton, CH, Labor Doula
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby sewbusymama » Sat Aug 21, 2010

Hi Hethir or Dalene,

I have had two miscarriages at 11 wks in the last year. The last one was conceived after just starting progesterone cream that cycle. Someone told me afterwards it needed to build up in the system and also about vitex. I consulted with the help line on the progesterone cream I use and they recommended I do two months of cream from day 5 -26 and then go to normal useage on my third month. I got my first period 29 days after my miscarriage and then began using the cream this way (I also started vitex and maca). I quit the prog. cream on day 26 and am now on day 34 and still no cycle. I did have some breakthrough bleeding mid-cycle that I attributed to suppressing ovulation with the cream, correct? I am wondering if this is normal? I realize after reading your site that I should have just done loading doses following my normal cycle. Should I switch to that for the next cycle? Also, am I supposed to quit maca during my period? I have only been quitting the vitex.

Thanks so much for your help! This site has been a wonderful help and encouragement! God Bless you both!

Audrey
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby Dalene » Tue Aug 24, 2010

Hi Audrey,

Thanks for your kind words of support!

After a miscarriage the cycle can be imbalanced for a couple of
months. I think it's best to let the body rest for a little while so
the hormones can balance again. The ovulation suppression technique
used with the progesterone cream is generally suggested for women who
are not ovulating, such as in cases of PCOS or gen. lack of ovulation.
Do you know what is causing your miscarriages? Did you have any tests
done?

Maca can be used through the cycle, but I generally suggest most herbs
be stopped during the period to let everything cleanse and balance on
it's own.

Looking forward to your response.

- Hethir and Dalene
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby sewbusymama » Tue Aug 24, 2010

Hi Dalene,

Thank you for your response. No, I haven't had any testing done. When I asked about it after my first miscarriage I was told they don't do testing until after 3 consecutive miscarriages, so I am trying to handle this on my own. I really don't want to reach the 3 miscarriages point! At the time of my first miscarriage I wondered if I was having some hypothyroid issues (weight gain despite diet and exercise, hair loss), but again, they just looked at my chart and said it was "within normal range". After that first miscarriage (hemorrhaged & had to have D&C) I also had surgery for a deviated septum (so two times of anesthesia if that matters). After the second surgery I started to notice a really full feeling in my throat & puffiness under and around my eyes, plus an unexplained 10# gain. I talked to a naturopath & she said it might be thyroid, but she wasn't convinced, but it wouldn't hurt me to up my kelp intake. So I did that and have gotten some better as far as the full feeling in my throat. I've also been dealing with adrenal fatigue according to the same naturopath. She had me taking some aminos for adrenal support. Before the second miscarriage my cycles, which had resumed at my normal 28 days started sneaking up to 27 days and then one time showed up at 25. I called the naturopath and she said it sounded like hormonal imbalance and to begin the progesterone cream. I started it right after ovulation that next cycle and was pregnant when I took a test at 28 days, so stayed on the cream. I miscarried at 11 weeks, naturally this time. After this miscarriage a friend told me about the vitex and about the cream needing to build up in your system, so I began with both after my first cycle, 37 days ago now. My husband & I researched and found out about the Maca and I had begun that earlier as we hadn't found anything saying not to use it during cycles, etc. and wanting to get my endocrine system balanced back out. In going through the tests Dr. Lee has online for finding out what my symptoms might be, I scored very high in estrogen dominance/progesterone deficient and some in the adrenal fatigue. Obviously, if I was getting pregnant, I was (hopefully still will be) ovulating. The support person with the progesterone cream was having me do it all month for 2 months in order to build up my progesterone stores. I no longer have access to a naturopath, so am trying this on my own.

So when you suggest to let the body rest awhile, what should I be/not be taking? I haven't used the progesterone cream since day 26. Am still taking maca and vitex though.

By the way, I come from Colorado. Originally from the Pueblo/Canon City area, but my husband and I lived in Gunnison for 5 years before he lost his mind and decided to move to WI (where he's originally from)! lol ;-)

Thanks so much!
Blessings,
Audrey
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby sewbusymama » Thu Aug 26, 2010

Oh, one more question - since I am not having regular periods and no idea when the next one will show up - when should I do the fertility cleanse? I was going to order and start, but thought maybe I should check first.

Thanks so much!!
Audrey
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby Dalene » Thu Aug 26, 2010

Hi Audrey,

You may want to consider a Natural Fertility Consultation.

Products not to use during your period: Vitex, Progesterone Cream.

I am sorry to hear yet another story of "after your third miscarriage". Hethir can relate to this, you may want to read our Recurrent Miscarriages page.

Because you do not have a regular menstrual cycle you may want to use Vitex everyday. Progesterone Cream can be used to mimic a cycle to help create one. Learn more here: http://natural-fertility-info.com/progesterone-fertility-guide

The Fertility Cleanse Kit may be used on any day you choose if you do not have a regular cycle. You would just count out the days for each phase as if you did have a regular cycle.

Hethir and I both grew up in CO. I recently moved back from Portland, OR. Beautiful state to live in!
Best Wishes,

Dalene Barton, CH, Labor Doula
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Re: Progesterone...confusing??? Help!

Postby Dalene » Thu Aug 26, 2010

I forgot to let you know we sell a great Adrenal Support by Megafood, check it out here: https://www.naturalfertilityshop.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=20022
Best Wishes,

Dalene Barton, CH, Labor Doula
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